David Maddox: Getting back to the classroom
There used to be a cruel saying "if you can't do, teach." I must I admit I always took slight offence at it as the son of two teachers and the husband of another.But sometimes my experience of politicians makes me think the saying should be: "If you can't teach, get elected."
A classic example was on BBC Scotland's Big Devolution Debate last night from Scottish Labour leader Iain Gray, a former Maths teacher (pictured right).
"Has it [the Scottish Parliament] made a difference?" he asked rhetorically. "Yes it has. When the Parliament started one in five children in this country lived in poverty. That's now one in three. That's significant progress."
So more poor children is a good thing or has Mr Gray just got his sums wrong?
Labels: David Maddox, devolution, Iain Gray, teachers
posted by Administrator at
10:38
13 Comments:
Strange. Not sure why he said “one in three”. It’s actually still one in five.
But that isn’t “poverty” in any absolute sense. It’s “relative poverty”, defined as the proportion of children living in families whose income happens to be below 60% of the national (Scottish) median income, after deducting housing costs.
So it isn’t a measure of absolute poverty, but of the scale of income disparity towards the lower end.
The Nationalists like to use this measure to wail about it being “morally unacceptable” that Scottish children are being “condemned to live a life of poverty”, the implication being that a Utopian Scottish Socialist Republic is the solution to every problem! I fail to see why Labour don’t challenge the fallacious underpinnings of such rhetoric.
The very latest research shows Britain to be 24th out of 29 European countries in relation to child wellbeing.
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/146831.php
The "relative poverty" you refer to, Scottish Unionist, is relative in a very broad sense, as the research I link to above shows.
Scotland's position, which is the worst in the UK, is no doubt even worse that the 24th it earns as part Britain.
How you can use this issue as a point scoring exercise for the union is beyond me. Especially when it points to the drastic failure of the union to protect the welfare of our children.
The SPAG’s so-called child wellbeing index is a different issue, and I’m not “point scoring” for the union. Rather, I’m defending against inane “drastic failure of the union” type rhetoric. It is nationalists who have sought to turn these important issues into political footballs.
But I’m interested in your claim that Scotland’s position is the “the worst in the UK”. Have you a shred of evidence for that?
In terms of relative poverty, Scotland’s position is actually the best of the home nations.
• England - 11,500,000 (22.5%)
• Scotland - 900,000 (17.4%)
• Wales - 700,000 (23.3%)
• Northern Ireland - 400,000 (22.7%)
Source: http://www.cpag.org.uk/povertyfacts
Correction: the CPAG’s so-called child wellbeing index...
Your attempts to justify the scale of child poverty in the UK is an obscenity.
The child wellbeing statistics are inclusive of a variety of welfare issues, including material resources (which is presumably how you would define poverty).
Look it up yourself.
www.cpag.org.uk/info/ChildWellbeingandChildPoverty.pdf
Your fanaticism for the union is such that it compels you to be ridiculous.
The UK child poverty statistics are among the very worst in Europe and are a damning indictment of the failure of the UK political system which is founded on a union between different countries with different priorities and different needs.
Indeed, it now appears that the only reason for preserving the union is to satisfy the wishy-washy romanticism of people such as yourself, who seek to uphold the illusion of Great Britain even at the expense of our children's wellfare.
NB: The worst conditions (not percentage but conditions) of poverty in the UK are in Glasgow and its surrounding area. Everyone knows that. Glasgow is also the worst for poverty in terms of percentage alongside London.
Bottom line: the extreme scale of child poverty in the UK is a measure of the failure of the UK.
Note also, Scottish Unionist, that if all the children in the UK were living decent standards of living, I would be a unionist.
They don't and I'm not.
Lara
Your tone seems familiar. Have we met before? Are you “Zoom”, aka “Winged Messenger”, aka “Jackie Priest”, aka “Lara Crofter” from the Scotsman forums?
Of course you are. Nobody else uses words like “obscenity” in that context!
I still remember your claim that “Poland is wealthier and more appealing than Scotland”.
Now, do you seriously expect me to put any great store on a “study” which treats as significant whether or not children “like school” and whether they “feel pressured by school work”?
The area on “children’s relationships” (including “the ease with which children can talk to their parents”) is topped by the Netherlands, with Slovenia in second place. Slovenia?! And Romania comes fifth; explain that, with specific reference to post-Ceauşescu social policy!
Under “education”, Estonia is given second place. The Czech Republic is third. Believable?
On “material resources” comparatively poor countries like Spain, Greece, Latvia and Estonia are ranked above Britain. The Czech Republic is ranked sixth in Europe, above Germany, France and Britain. How can you take such “findings” at face value?
Has it never occurred to you that the CPAG may have a less-than-transparent agenda?
I’ll deal with the rest of your reply later, if I get the time.
"Rather, I’m defending against inane “drastic failure of the union” type rhetoric."
Ah yes. More filthy SNP propaganda from that arch-Nat David Maddox.
I'd worry about that straw man of yours in this weather, love. Might catch fire.
No straw man. Lara used that exact phrase.
Yes, AM2, you're right.
Foreigners cannot possible be better educated than the British. That would be quite impossible.
That report I linked to is obviously a fake, perhaps a practical joke of some kind.
Just ignore it, I beg you.
More tea?
I don't think poverty discriminates between the English and the Scots. Some of the Boroughs in London have pockets of poverty and social deprivation equivalent to anything you will see in the worst parts of Glasgow.
And I do think that Glasgow's stats distort the Scottish figures in general; on the whole we are not as poor as, say, the North of England. Although you can find stats of course to back up whatever you want, I am just making an observation.
The question for me is how do I contribute to making the society in which I live more equitable, with fewer people living in relative poverty.
The Labour Party were founded to do just that more than a hundred years ago. They have not been very successful when compared to countries like Norway.
Could we get a Norwegian style Govt in the UK ? At the moment it doesn't seem likely, but I think we could aim for one here.
Interesting points, Observer, but it's fair to say that to emulate Norway in this respect would require a major cultural shift.
How to coax into work those who by choice are economically inactive? How to narrow the gap between lower and higher wages (or at least to further raise the baseline) while maintaining innovation, enterprise and productivity?
And then there are questions about people's use of money. How to encourage better management of household finances? To reduce personal debt? To promote sensible retirement planning, saving and investment?
And on a related note: how to deal with our continuing health inequalities, with their inevitable financial side effects? In that area, I think the SNP actually has some interesting ideas.
But to exaggerate the issues and then attempt to portray them as a “damning indictment” of the “union between different countries” is, I think, to absolve responsibility.
From 2007. Source UNICEF
CHILD WELL-BEING TABLE
1. Netherlands
2. Sweden
3. Denmark
4. Finland
5. Spain
6. Switzerland
7. Norway
8. Italy
9. Republic of Ireland
10. Belgium
11. Germany
12. Canada
13. Greece
14. Poland
15. Czech Republic
16. France
17. Portugal
18. Austria
19. Hungary
20. United States
21. United Kingdom
"There is no obvious relationship between levels of child well-being and GDP per capita. The Czech Republic, for example, achieves a higher overall rank for child well-being than several much wealthier countries."
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/6359849.stm
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